![]()
![]()
![]()
1 comments.
The cost effectiveness of traffic cameras
In trying to make a rather simple point that the Athens-Clarke County budget has arrived at the 'bare bones' portion of discourse, Blake inadvertantly launched a new conversation that is focusing on cutting what he suggested, well, is probably pretty tough to cut.
For instance, Dustin is advocating for completely removing the funding for the traffic cameras positioned around town ...
We could really do without them. They are costing us money. Odds are, once people realize they are there, they will be more cautious trying to make it through the yellow light.
I also believe we pay people to monitor this for us. It’s this group of people, they wear uniforms. They even get some special cars with blue lights and get to carry a gun. Po… Popo… the fuzz… oh yeah, the Athens-Clarke police department. They are the ones that should be enforcing the laws, not some automated camera sitting on top of a red light. In fact, here is a proposal. (And I do not mean any disrespect to the ACC police, they do a great job.)
Lets get rid of the $278,000 cost and hire some police officers with that money. We do need more jobs in the county. We should be able to hire like 6 more police officers with that money. And guess what, they could actually check the intersections AND do more stuff, such as responding to violent crimes. We create 6 jobs AND get more for the money. It is a win-win.
I think there are some clear problems with this proposition.
The primary one is that the total cost of $278,000 is entangled with the $225,000 it generates in revenue. That latter figure is the amount of money those traffic cameras bring in annually through tickets and fines, thus giving us the $53,000 discrepency that Blake properly cites as the outstanding expense.
It's impossible to separate those two numbers given that the vast majority of the funding is directly tied to the operation of the cameras. So, if you cease to fund the cameras, then you cut off access to the $225,000. As a result, the only number you can actually cut to achieve real savings is the $53,000 in additional funds allocated by the local government to meet the shortfall. This also means you actually can't hire additional police with these funds because, again, without the cameras, they don't exist.
In addition, I'd suggest if the goal is to generate revenue - or if a complementary goal is to raise revenue to fund the cameras to help achieve the larger aim of creating a safer environment in those intersections - then there's no logical reason to not use cameras. Those cameras catch every potential violation, and, as a result, they will always generate more revenue for red light violations than six uniformed officers patrolling the streets would.
If anything, the existence of the cameras is the most cost-effective solution when it comes to traffic calming and safer intersections. Removing them would, in fact, have the potential to further decrease revenue and place an additional strain on existing personnel and resources.
Now, this isn't to say that there might be some alternative proposals. For instance, it could be possible that the $53,000 is simply not allocated, which would result, presumably, in the cameras not running for the full duration (of course, that would impact their periods of monitoring and result in a decline in revenue from fines, thus putting us back at square one).
Likewise, I'm somewhat confused at why it costs $278,000 annually to run those cameras, and some additional information on how that funding is broken done would be appreciated.
Still, the broader point is that what appears at times to be a 'simple' cut often isn't.
Response
Submitted by GALiberal on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 8:46am.Well, you also have to think about this. The six police officers would be writing citations... for speeding, DUI's, etc. And most of those tickets would be more than the $70 limit that the camera has. So, again, the net cost of $53k could actually be a less if you look at the price of the cops employment minus the revenue they generate. We would have to do a study and look at those numbers.More importantly, public safety is not (entirely) about money, its about safety. And, I really feel I would rather have police officers responding to violent and property crimes than traffic violations.It is just a thought, and maybe we should not "cut" them right now, but there needs to be some long term planning on this stuff. I would rather have more cops on the street than more cameras.
However ...
Submitted by Johnathan McGinty on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:50am.... I think the latter part of your response simply reaffirms my initial argument. If your goal is to have more officers responding to violent crimes, then it's implausible to suggest they could do that if you're also advocating for them to write citations for speeding and the like. And, again, the funding for the six police officers doesn't exist without the existence of the cameras to generate said money (at least initially, and I doubt the ability of these officers to generate the necessary revenue needed to keep their jobs).
If the argument is that this is about public safety, then a low maintenance traffic camera system that makes our intersections safer and frees up personnel to pursue those things you cited seems to be more the best solution.
Budget
Submitted by Polemos on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:14am.I'm not a budgeting expert, but I highly doubt you could fit 6 officers into a budget on $278K. Maybe, four at most, with health care benefits premiums for families, with all the additional expenses of training, outfitting, and such for each. Still, your analysis is right: we have to consider the revenue generated alongside the cost.
The costs are probably connected to paying a sworn officer (or officers) to review the footage, make determinations based on what's there if a violation took place, run a GCIC check on the vehicle owner, cross-reference and locate the owner, then swear an affidavit a violation occurred and issue a civil citation to the vehicle's owner. It's also possible, and more likely, ACC is using an automated GCIC plate checking system, but some corroboration with the software's prediction of the readout and the actual footage has to occur, as well as a sworn officer determining a violation has (probably) occurred. Then these citations are printed and mailed out. Any that return with a check or some payment have to be processed by administrative staff; any time someone contests it has to be handled through the bureaucratic mechanisms in place. And then there's having to ensure the cameras are all in working order, additional costs in paying the electric bills and maintaining a wireless/wired network connection to all the cameras and the servers and routers. This is probably also run by some proprietary software cobbled together from horrible code written for various entirely different systems, so it fails often and enough to require visits by a software rep who then sells ACC more services on top of the steep licensing fee while the IT guys have to hack the code again to make it work.
I'm feeling ornery...
Submitted by Martin Matheny on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:53am.So allow me to muddy the waters even more. Forget cost-effectiveness, let's talk about whether they're really that effective in any sense.
Every couple of years, the General Assembly has the debate on whether we ought to even have red light cameras at all. Usually, the Republicans (or one or two specific Republicans) bring it up, and guys, they have a point. I'm kind of on the "bag all the traffic cameras" side of the debate. Here's some food for thought:
I'd like to actually find some data on this, and maybe later today I'll hunt around for some, but it's usually mentioned that while red light cameras are a deterrent to actually, you know, running red lights, intersections where such cameras are placed (and where signage is posted to that effect) also have higher proportions of other accidents, mainly rear-enders. Like I said, I've heard more rhetoric than data on this, but it does seem quite plausible. You've got a yellow light, you know the intersection is wired for video, so you slam on brakes to avoid a ticket. The guy behind you doesn't. The threat of a red light camera has the potential to modify normal driving behavior (i.e. you're less likely to scoot through on a yellow, even if that's a more rational option than sudden braking.)
Now I say all that to be more contrarian than actually persuasive. I'm agnostic about traffic cameras; I don't think they help that much, and as Blake's numbers pointed out, they're a net loss for the county. $53K is a fairly small sum in government budgeting terms. As Polemos showed with the math on the $287,000 figure, $53,000 probably isn't enough to hire even one more cop, once you count in the costs of salary, benefits, training, and equipment.
I can think of better uses for the $53K.
you don't have to wonder...
Submitted by Al Davison (not verified) on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 1:00pm.Martin,There is a lot of data on the effectiveness of the cameras. You don't have to like them but the data is rock-solid that they reduce accidents with injuries. The same data will show an increase in rear-ender-fender-benders exactly as you have described and will show that those will be increased initially and then begin to recede to normal or below-normal levels. The issue is public safety - not car safety. In other words, most folks care more about people getting hurt than they do about bumpers getting wrinkled. Modifying driver behavior is exactly what it's all about because cars don't crash themselves. Most drivers do whatever they think they can get away with. To paraphrase Bob Dylan "everything's legal as long as you don't get caught" - that's how 99% of drivers tend to drive.A great many folks have serious issues with redlight cameras but you can't argue that they are inneffective or inefficient. They work.Anybody who wants to talk about saving money in government operations should lead a crusade to get people to behave themselves. We could save maybe half the county budget if everyone would suddenly start following all the rules and laws and being nice to each other. Utopia is much cheaper to operate than the wild, wild west. ;-)
Again...
Submitted by Martin Matheny on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 1:16pm.I neither like nor dislike the data. But, it's an interesting thought exercise, and I like it when people comment on our stuff; it makes us feel loved. So from time to time, we'll bring in new points to spark discussion.
Like I said, I'm agnostic on cameras. I can think of better ways to spend $53,000, but I can think of worse ways too. What I would like to see is some numbers on exactly how many of the fines actually get collected. My understanding is that the violation is a civil matter, which means if you conveniently "forget" to pay it, the couty pretty much has to sue you in small claims court (magistrate, I think?), which is going to cost a lot more than $70. I'm sure that pretty much all of the uncollected fines never get to that point. Besides, the county has better stuff to do.
Come to think of it, I'm going to presume that at least some of the $287,000 figure for costs is for sending the tickets out, etc, right?
Now that's hard data
Submitted by Jsnowden (not verified) on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 4:19pm."To paraphrase Bob Dylan "everything's legal as long as you don't get caught" - that's how 99% of drivers tend to drive."I don't know what's better, that the first husband can so accurately create statistics to support the policies he supports or that the inspiration for these policies may be attributed to Dylan. Let me guess, TNR came from listening to The Nuge!!!!!!!!
Did somebody ask for hard data???
Submitted by richmart on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 6:25pm.From the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/rlr.html) "
using the Googles so I don't have to...
Submitted by Martin Matheny on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 6:29pm.Well, there you have it, and I'll stand corrected. Stand back while I eat my humble pie.
(Wouldn't it be nice if all commenters admitted it when they got out-facted?)
I am the Googles!
Submitted by richmart on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:02pm.Will you change your nickname to Martmeth in honor of my contribution?
You're not the boss of me!
Submitted by Martin Matheny on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:03pm.... even if you are the Googles.